Was ww2 inevitable reddit. Whether it actually works in practice is a good question.

Was ww2 inevitable reddit In its efforts to find a way to finally win the war in China and put an end to the endless bog. By about 1939, WWII was certainly seen as inevitable. By June 1st Hitler was dead, Joseph Goebbels was dead, Heinrich Himmler was dead, Martin Bormann was dead. Opinions differ but the popular/populist impression that Versailles made another war inevitable are in my opinion teleological. In reference to World War II, I would agree with many posters here that the United States involvement was most important with regards to economic support. for the USA, WW2 would have been the war in the pacific, Britain & Canada would have gotten dragged into the Pacific War in Burma & Defending Australia. Oct 19, 2017 · Far from being inevitable, World War II resulted from the Allies’ failure to muster their combined resources and power in the service of deterring Hitler. 6M subscribers in the NoStupidQuestions community. There were a series of public opinion polls that shows the changing attitude when it came to war with Germany, revealing the U. before the newspapers (with ties to international finance) started making hit pieces on him daily. Nazi Germany’s wartime economy relied upon both slave labor and looted food/resources from the countries they were able to overrun. M. The economic circumstances were quite dire there, but more important was that the threat of a socialist revolution was extremely present (at one point the Socialist Party literally voted on "hey y'all wanna do a revolution" and decided not to), and the existing elite sought anyone who would stave off revolution by any means necessary. Milosevic then fanned the flames into an inferno for personal political power. I know that the United States provided something like 6/7ths of the oil used by the allies during the war, and in addition was the only main producer of the 100 octane fuel that was required Some historians consider the Japanese invasion of Manchuria in 1931 to be the true start of World War II because Mussolini invaded Ethiopia four years after Manchuria fell to Japanese troops, creating another conflict in North Africa, and he invaded Albania in March 1939, months before Hitler invaded Poland. 140K subscribers in the ww2 community. We had navy bases everywhere in the Pacific before WW2, including the Philippines, Samao, Wake, Midway, etc. No German victory in WW1 is going to stop AH from collapsing. But specifically the Cold War may have started because Stalin perceived Truman as a bit of a pushover and he proved to be anything but. Being capalist, there would be no land collectiziation or famine. Something neither side was capable of at any point. The coup wasn't an attempt on the Emperor's life, but was instead an attempt to oust him of power by occupying the Imperial Palace, and effectively place Hirohita under indefinite house arrest. US analysts think it's at least a couple of years until they are ready to invade. Even our victory is tainted by dropping nuclear weapons on civilian centers. The only reason that traditional German operational methods amounted to failure is because of the USSR's vast geographic space. Apparently the Soviets were up for the idea at that point. It’s a myth that the U. "They're in China" is all that is said of the Japanese invasion and occupation of China - none of the battles mentioned (not even the invasion of Nanking). 3. As well, considering that the US still sends supplies to the Soviets, Germany can't win the Eastern Front, as they were losing thanks to US Lend-Lease far before Americans began We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. In the years leading up to World War II, Benito Mussolini embarked on an ambitious plan to transform Italy into a formidable power. One reason that historians argue that WW2 was inevitable, like P. What if Germany had never declared war on the United States Feb 8, 2020 · ‘The Second World War was inevitable from the moment World War One ended’. We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. If that happened there would be no rebound like after World War II. The Franco-Prussian War was the final war of German Unification and it would, overnight, unite hundreds of independent principalities and kingdoms into one continuous state thus creating arguably the most powerful state in Europe. The Emperor remained in the Imperial Palace during the coup attempt. It's not so much that they expected the U. For discussion of all things World War II. there's also the possibility of the Volkists gaining power, though less likely, but Goebbels himself said that if they had the power and knew how to get thousands onto the streets, they would've seized control in 1918. To that end, nearly every action Japan took in the wider context of World War II can be tied back to the war in China, and the intractable problem that it represented. The only ones we gained because of WW2 were those in Japan itself. And although Wars still happen and politics often break down I think that we have reached the point where we can always find some other solution than murdering 10% or more of our global population. Hitler was quite popular in America, Europe, England, etc. The precise form World War II took was not inevitable. to not be able to counterattack -- the entire point of the way that Japan built its fleet was to counter an American move to retake the Philippines, which were always a Japanese objective in an assumed Pacific war with the U. The Portal for Public History. I think a War like ww2 is impossible today simply because the A-bomb exists. I highly doubt that achieving naval "dominance" was even possible at all, but with how heavily outclassed the Kriegsmarine was by the Royal Navy, and given how long major warships take to build (the Bismarck took well over 2 years), building up the Kriegsmarine to be able to fight with the British at all would have taken several years. As an example, during WW2, both sides had chemical weapons, however they never saw widespread use by either side due to the fear of retribution and the knowlege of how terrible they were. Germany has no serious global naval projection power during WW2 and would never be able to outpace US production, and Japan's paled into comparison to the US Navy. He thought having Russia, China, the US and England act as major powers would have a stabilizing impact on relations. Recognizing the untapped potential of Southern Italy, he initiated a comprehensive industrialization program, bringing the region's capabilities on par with the North. This guy had no interest in winning WW2 judging by that statement. Then again, World War II really was what paved the way for both the US and the Soviet Union to become super powers, so perhaps a war between these power pre-1945 is hard to imagine. The US and the USSR could have gone into a hot war directly after World War 2. Or was war between the Central Powers and the Entente inevitable past the 1870’s, especially because of Germany and… Since the Russo-Japanese War, the Japanese and Americans had saw each other as possible if not inevitable enemies in the Pacific. Pound for pound the country was pretty formidable but by the end of the day they simply didn't have the heavy industry to compete with other powers. At what point did Allied leaders and governments realize that World War II was inevitable? In the months leading up to World War II, countries like France and the UK were heavily preparing for war as tensions were escalating. public was in favor even before December 7, 1941. He mentions the defensive power of high fire-rate weapons, like the machine gun but also the bolt-action rifle. I actually have a fairly poor opinion of Japan's performance in WW2. WW2 was inevitable. What it misses out is a lot of distinctions between the specifics of their origins, and arguably makes World War II a lot more "inevitable" seeming than it might have been (which tends to underplay the role of specific historical actors and choices — for example, if WWII is "inevitable" does that somehow absolve Hitler, by just making him a 2) Attacking Russia, aka "the worst strategic decision in history" (cf. Maybe a communist would have seized power, but this would hardly lead to the exact same war, or even be garantueed to lead to war at all. Every Country played a key role in one fashion or another. Many historians claim that WW1 was bound to happen given rising tensions in Europe. World War 2 at least had a cause with a fairly clearly defined set of "bad guys" and "good guys" trying to stop them. By conventional assessments, Stalingrad, no question. Also the US would help the Russia after WW2 in this timeline. To me the answer depends on some conditions. Don't be a scab. Because Hitler's entire plan was to gain living space for the German volk and the Nazi doctrine emphasizes expansionism. 845 votes, 79 comments. 6 million were stationed abroad. So I agree, yes, America's involvement in the war was inevitable, in my opinion, but the result could have changed if they weren't awoken at pearl harbour. Bell in his book, The Origins of the Second World War in Europe, was that after WW1, the ethnic antagonisms that had contributed to the first world war also contributed to the second. If the United States develops the atomic bomb first, the other two powers will develop their atomic bombs and Harry Truman will let them, just as he let the To understand why France went to war in 1914 we have to wind the clock back quite a few decades to 1871. The mythic 70% force ratio to the USN, which the IJN aimed to retain through the treaty era, took as it's starting assumption a decisive, defensive fight against the pre-war US That's a great quote! This kind of rhetoric is rampant in the wake of the American revolution - there's lots of talk of sweeping away the crumbling, decadent 'old world' of Europe and replacing it with a pure, vibrant, republican model of society nurtured in the new world. A negotiated peace with the USSR in maybe October 1941. To begin with, I'd like to point out that this question is fundamentally unanswerable. Even then if a one on one combat between the Soviets and Germans I have high doubts the Germans could have won. Soviets spent entirety of 30s trying to organize strong antifascist coalition. Please read the rules before participating, as we remove all comments which break the rules. Germany was in a possition of both humiliation (losing a lot of territory, etc) but also it wasn't stripped of its power (it was still mostly uified and had some wealthy regions like the Rhineland). The only way the US would have lost in WW2 was if Japan or Germany had managed to invade and take out its Industrial capacity. Kantai Kessen had envisioned a USN fleet sailing into Japanese territory and being whittled down by land based aviation and skirmishes before a decisive battle We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. Which will draw Germany into another war against Italy/Russia/France/UK that will be WW2 with a different start date. Barbarossa backs that up -- the Germans inflicted nearly 5 million total casualties (3 million POWs), destroyed the Soviet air force, and wiped out their tank force (20,000 Soviet aircraft and 20,000 soviet tanks lost) at a cost Yes, some good reading on this is battles Lost and Won and The Economics of World War 2 by Harrison. Mainly the problem was opening up too many fronts. Barbarossa was inevitable so long as England remained in the war - in fact it kicked off as the last shipments of trade goods arrived from the Soviet Union, a shipment that Germany couldn’t have paid for. War in Europe was inevitable, there was not a single event that played a central role. Germany had long since been rearming, while France and Britain were doing the same essentially from the Munich Crisis (1938) onwards. Nearly all of the world's countries participated, with many nations mobilising all resources in pursuit of total war . But from the moment the reparations were set and the maps were redrawn, there was going to be another massive european conflict, and Germany was going to be one of the belligerent powers. The economy espeically after WW2 would be able to support both the people and the space race. And Taiwan has particularly hard to invade 450K subscribers in the imaginarymaps community. WW2 in Europe wasn't inevitable, if Germany had stopped at Sudetenland or Austria. Dune is a landmark science fiction novel first published in 1965 and the first in a 6-book saga penned by author Frank Herbert. But given how infamous Hitler is people will say things like “if he just got accepted to art school” or “if he died while serving” it could have been avoided. No World War II doesn't mean the United States doesn't develop the atomic bomb in peacetime. “Germany was defeated after the Battle of the Bulge,” he said. Existe-t-il des scénarios possibles dans lesquels la guerre n’aurait tout simplement pas eu lieu et où le 20e siècle n’aurait pas été un tel… Germany had no real chance of winning the war by the time of the Bulge. Eisenhower says he believes the “unconditional surrender” policy in World War II was a mistake and that it caused the Germans to fight longer. Hitler knew the US was Germany’s main rival for economic power. From Wikipedia: . As soon as Corporal Hitler came to power in 1933 that is when WW2 became inevitable. Whether it actually works in practice is a good question. If you modmail asking for access I'll ban you. He hurts the German people to comparable levels to how much he hurt those he oppressed. The other common quotation attributed to Yamamoto predicting the future outcome of a naval war against the United States is: "I can run wild for six months … after that, I have no expectation of success" World War II [b] or the Second World War (1 September 1939 – 2 September 1945) was a global conflict between two coalitions: the Allies and the Axis powers. In a war such as WW2, which relied so heavily on industrial output and weight of numbers, the idea of a "turning point" is a little antiquated. At first, it was pretty much split, leaning isolationist: Hitler was not inevitable. Dec 8, 2024 · As a huge “what-if” among history enthusiasts, I’m asking you if another world war post-WW1 was inevitable, or at least very likely to have Oct 26, 2024 · They say the two greatest things Bismarck did was 1) unify Germany and 2) make Great Britain and France BFFs. But this ignores that the Nazi's and a lot of WW2 were shaped by rather specific beliefs of Hitler. George Patton advocated this, as Russia had essentially gotten into a major slugfest in Germany, with millions of Soviet soldiers killed, and much in the way of leadership and weaponry was worn out. It was always obvious that Japan could not win against the US. Could anyone have stepped forward and successfully restarted the war in a meaningful manner after June 1st, probably not. The US had a very difficult time of it in WW2 despite having already done significant damage to Japan. Pacific Fleet to the point that they could consolidate their gains in Southeast Asia (they also attacked Hong Kong and Malaya almost simultaneously) before the U. H. In Godzila: Minus One, the Japanese characters treat WW2 as a tragic but inevitable mistake with no value judgements involved. The allies didn't definitively turn around the war until Kursk and didn't consolidate that momentum until the end of Operation Bagration in 1944. Assume Germany unified as they did Jul 27, 2020 · Here’s What You Need to Remember: Both Hitler and Roosevelt believed that war was inevitable, and they were both probably right. Certain events had to happen in the intervening period for World War II to start, including the Great Depression, and Britain and France's basic abandonment of maintaining the peace in the face of adverse pressures. You can make a submachine gun with fairly basic machine tools: the Błyskawica and some Sten variants were mass-produced covertly. " The broad alliance of the United Nations won the war. The vast distances made rapid victory impossible, and the strategic position and resource situation made a long conflict unwinnable. Most answers in this thread cover a military viewpoint of "at what point did Germany lose World War 2: The Strategy Game?", but unlike WW1, in WW2 this is not an appropriate question. By the time D-Day happened, there was no doubt if the Soviets would defeat the Germans, only when. They needed much more time to consolidate their take over of mainland Europe and invade Britain instead of split their forces to invade North Africa and the USSR. If they also avoid declaring war on the US, I think they would have placed the British in a very difficult spot. The Ottomans and Russians could have found some reason or another to fight, or perhaps Russia could have taken to strong a hand in Persia or Afghanistan, which would reignite the great game and turn Britain against them, and that in turn could lead to a second Russo-Japanese war as the Japanese As to WW2 yes Hitler was being confrontational to get rid of the Treaty of Versailles that was wildly unpopular and pretty unfair given the supposed principles of the League of Nations and actual hypocrisy of the major states participating in it. There is a narrow window in which World War II could occur before the atomic bomb is invented. Like, why do you think we were all fighting in Syria and switching sides arming different people, with the Russians somehow on the other side? Italy had its fascist turn in the 20s, after winning the war. The United States had more than 12 million men and women in the armed forces at the end of World War II, of whom 7. The second step would be some more natural and defensible borders to minimize both the rational security concerns and nationalist irredentist feeling that led to WW2. This assumption pre-dates the run-up to World War II. The Germans seemed poised for victory on the gates of Moscow . We don't have it in us anymore. A tiny force put up stunning resistance, and it was with a lot of ordinary people, middle aged teachers, accountants, hunters, etc using superior tactics and mobility to give one of the most heroic defenses of all time. In WW2, we see the British Empire, Red Army, Wehrmacht, and US military all face crushing defeats. ) Was the war inevitable? Yes, because it was the centerpiece of Hitler's ideology: According to Blut und Boden (Blood and Soild), the Aryans had to expand to the east in order to save their race from inevitable doom. As horrendous as the scale of loss of life was, it was to stop fascists who would have wiped out entire demographics of the human race. Widely considered one of the greatest works within the sci-fi genre, Dune has been the subject of various film and TV adaptations, including the Academy Award winning 2021 film Dune directed by Denis Villeneuve. Japan really wanted glory and to expand their territory. Millions of non-combatants dead. Americans, Brits, Canadians, Free French forces, Russians, Chinese Communists, Chinese Nationalists, Aussies, Kiwis and many more. 29 votes, 67 comments. I'd consider it a good possibility that a smaller localized war could have taken the place of WW1. When discussing the links between the end of World War One and the beginning of World War Two, it is key to call into question its inevitability, or indeed its unlikeliness. Obviously this directly led to WW2. . The Japanese had created the concept of Kantai Kessen. The 1920s era Eight-Eight fleet building plan assumed that the opponent would be the US Navy sailing towards Japan. Loads of WW2 documentaries are Eurocentric and fail to properly cover the war in Asia, but this is one of the worst offenders. However- I have serious doubts whether or not Germany seriously needed to start a war to either fix their economy or receive economic aid from the west. And no, FDR wasn't looking at postwar imperialism, he was looking at Japan gobbling up Asia by conquest at a time that wasn't supposed to happen anymore. So WW2 was a blessing in disguise. Germany was managing its war debts fairly well- and renegotiating them in ongoing diplomatic and financial dealings- until the Depression. true. Locked due to reddit protests, until the 14. If you're a Nazi though, fuck off. S. People always say that once the US entered the war, Allied victory was inevitable. D-Day accelerated the timeline and secured free and democratic governments for much of Western and Central Europe, but did not otherwise swing the outcome. A big war was going to start either from a reignited Germany or Russia. I will accept that WW2 ended with the good guys winning. Had they found a resolution to Finland, for example, it's possible that they would have continued to divide up Europe. Like every book that treats World War II as a rational conflict along the lines of the Seven Years’ War or the Franco­Prussian War or the American Civil War, which were fought for clearly defined ends that either side might have achieved, Engineers of Victory in this sense is fundamentally misconceived from the outset. To add for WW2 I brought in the D-day anniversary book, multiple books about the USAA bomber formations over Europe and in Asia, I probably brought in close to 50 books on world war 2 that allowed him to make a much better lesson plan for it and for future classes. USA cut their oil, tensions were bound to rise. The key word is slowly. The far right had always relied heavily on exploiting the sense of shame associated with Versailles, its impositions and the 'war Without Japan going on its imperial endeavors in WW2, I could totally see there being fewer casualties overall in the war (with at least one front being completely derailed), though it'd almost certainly be a darker timeline for Asia (there would most likely be no developed country in Asia by the 21st century). Ask away! World War 2 and anti NSDAP sentiment was whipped up because Hitler said "fuck you" to the international finance system. We've fought plenty of proxiwars since-- Korea, Vietnam, and literally 30 years in the middle east. The immense disparity in armor and personnel made the end result inevitable, but it was an embarrassment for the Red army. 16, 1945, it was all over, and anyone with sense knew it was over. After Hitler occupied the Czechlands in 1939, it was clear that he could not be expected to keep his word. The thing is Yugoslavia did have all of these tensions from WW2 and earlier under the surface, though they had died down to that a of simmering embers. “By Jan. They wanted a negotiated peace with the US. Imaginary Maps! Share maps you have made of alternate history, fantasy, sci-fi or anything really!… From Wikipedia: The Demobilization of United States armed forces after the Second World War began with the defeat of Germany in May 1945 and continued through 1946. first off, russia IS meddling with US elections today, as 1,000 people said- but also, the pre WWII soviet union didn't have a globe spanning intelligence apparatus doing clandestine toppling of regimes by propping up banana republics the likes of which they later encountered in the CIA- from 1919 to 1935 the soviet union was mostly keeping incredibly busy trying to build a state from the dirt We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. Bonaparte, N. Against a rational foe, the winning answer would have been not to do it. This is because the Japanese government has never fully apologised for starting, escalating, and continuing a war that killed over 20 million people in Asia But I have a very hard time thinking of WW2 as anything but extremely horrible. It’s important to remember that in 1941 the Germans had literally every advantage possible (more men, more modern tanks, superior tactics, total air superiority, more experience, and complete surprise) and they still couldn’t even reach Moscow. It would break our species for a couple generations. public was strongly against entering World War II until Pearl Harbor. If he wanted to fulfill his Nazi ideology, he was gonna have to win WW2 and if he wanted to win WW2, he needed the Jews. Answers must be in-depth and comprehensive, or they will be removed. “It is said that the Houdry and TCC units were a major factor in the winning of World War II by supplying the high-octane gasoline needed by the air forces of Great Britain and the United States for the more efficient higher compression ratio engines of the Spitfire and the Mustang” Not the OP, but it’s a bit more complicated than that. From a purely strategic POV, the war was either lost in 1941 if you don't believe Germany could survive war with the USSR or not until Stalingrad at the very FDR envisioned a multipolar world order after World War II as a balancing act with his Four Policeman concept. To the degree that it was inevitable, I think it's less due to ideological differences and more due to the fact that both nations were ruled by power-mad dictators who wanted the same turf. So the deaths at least prevented something much worse. You could just as easily go back in history, with the Iraq War, 9/11, heck go all the way back to the Paris Peace Treaties that ended WW2 as "the path to WW3", just as you could describe history starting at the treaty of Versailles as "the path to WW2", but all you're really doing is describing history with minimal actual predictions or insights. Their attacks on European colonies were masterly led and fought; but there is no way on earth those would have succeeded if the other countries weren't dealing with the Germans at I think WWII was inevitable, but Hitler was not. Africa and Asia in the early 20th century didn't really have the existing manufacturing base that Western Europe had during WW2. Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on a big gamble that they could damage the U. You could say it was when the Allies achieved superiority in material production, or you could make the argument that opening the second front (Russia) was the end of their chances. World War II was just Europe flaring up again and Asia joining in large scale. Germany's mistakes were made at nearly every level. Finally, the third step would be for all the small states created after the war to engage in a diplomatic balancing with the Soviets and the Germans to ensure their security. One had to attack the other, it actually seemed inevitable. Chemical weapons are so much less devastating than nuclear weapons, that I think the same principle would apply in a hypothetical major conflict between great The Russian railroad magnate Ivan Bloch wrote a huge set, The Future of War, describing that the time they lived in was a time like no other. Without it, the long peace may never have happened. In fact, Russia fight go to the moon first. Only question was wheter Germany will attack east or west. Armies in World War II generally benefited from being on the offensive, so Germany was right to attack when she did. But had Hitler been able to knock the Soviet Union out of the war, I imagine the war would eventually have ended with in a settled peace with German client states making up the whole of continental Europe. It's silly to boil it down and say "America won WW2" or "Russia won WW2. arrived and then they could (with luck as an integral part of plan) fight their way to a settlement. It is not possible to draw a direct line from Versailles to September 1939. Remember that invading an Island is one of the most complicated and difficult things for a military to pull off. The security council of the UN envisions a similar idea. I cannot accept that WW2 was anything less than a tragic suicidal plunge into genocidal mania. There is an elephant in the room I haven’t addressed, the Holocaust. The four Panzer Groups lacked the necessary infantry strength to make tight encirclements, yet, in a way, the Germans were damned if they do and damned if they don't: loose encirclements permitted an insurgency to form, while tight encirclements likely would have Unlike WW1 where alternate history always ends in War, with the same folks on the same side. There wold be no waiting in lines for food or shortages of toilet paper. Now after world War II, there was definitely a cessation in fighting, with the founding of the United Nations and NATO, and the United States guaranteeing global trade through the use of its navy. rdiwtk ngyvv qvaz zhz iqqz oeckk lksd ctebtdk qefqmr ycrvvw ivp eicwo lpy ofsop smuvw